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Meet and Confer Minutes - 10/04/2007 MEET AND CONFER CITY OF WICHITA FALLS & WICHITA FALLS FIRE DEPARTMENT OCTOBER 4, 2007 PRESENT: Glenn Barham, Councilor at Large § Elected Officials Darron J. Leiker, City Manager § Matt Benoit, Assistant City Manager § Earl Foster, Fire Chief § Julia Vasquez, First Assistant City Attorney § R. Kinley Hegglund, Jr., § Senior Assistant City Attorney § Jim Dockery, Director of Finance § City Administration David Winney, Human Resources Director § Linda Merrill, Recording Secretary § Ray Wood, FEO (President, Local 432) § Jim Davis, FEO (Vice-President, Local 432) § Gary Broyles, Battalion Chief § Keith Morton, Captain § Wichita Falls Fire Department Nick Hillner, Captain § Robert Whiteley, FEO § Randy Brown, Lieutenant § Brent Womack, Firefighter § Steve Wilkinson, FEO § David Collins, Fire Marshal § I. CALL TO ORDER. Darron Leiker called the meeting to order at 11:29 a.m. II. CITY MEET AND CONFER DISCUSSIONS WITH INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIREFIGHTERS LOCAL 432, AS AUTHORIZED BY CHAPTER 142 OF THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE. Mr. Leiker initiated the dialogue at today's meeting by asking Ray Wood what the Association wished to discuss. MEET&CONFER—CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 2 Salary Issues Mr. Wood replied that the Association wishes to discuss the budget, and the City Manager's salary recommendations to the Council. They want to sit down with City staff and compare the Waters Group salary survey with the Fire Department's own survey, to reach a plan to get firefighters to average pay. Mr. Leiker noted that he received the Association's letter at the end of August. By that time, his preliminary budget had already been presented to the Council. The Meet and Confer meeting held in June would have been the appropriate time to hear budget issues. Mr. Wood responded that the Association had given the Fire Chief its list of priorities concerning the budget back in June. They will always want to talk about average pay, if not more. They believe they are an above-average fire department. Mr. Leiker asked if the Association conducts its survey annually, and whether it surveys the same cities used by the City. Mr. Wood replied affirmatively. Mr. Leiker stated he would like to see the survey to determine where the differences lie. He wondered whether the fact the City uses a Geographic Adjustment Factor (GAF) to take into account the cost of living could account for the discrepancies. For example, the City adjusted downward 9% from the Denton salary due to the GAF. That might be where the differences come into play. The Council adopted the GAF as part of the methodology to do the salary study. The Waters survey just created a new range, opined Mr. Wood. In a meeting with the Fire Department, David Winney presented a graph which showed the department's salaries are still below average, even with the cost of living adjustment. That is the part that is hard to take, although they're going to take what they can get. The Fire Department employees consider themselves above average. A lot of money was spent on the salary study, and they are still not at average pay. Mr. Leiker observed that there seems to be a misunderstanding about what average is, and the cost of living factor. About a year ago, the City staff looked at each rank in the Fire Department to compare salaries to the actual market averages in the cities to which Wichita Falls compares itself. PosITloN CWF SALARY ACTUAL MARKET AVERAGE Fire Recruit $32,710 $32,709 Firefighter (including 12 recent Academy $41,602 $42,789 graduates) 31 of the 69 firefighters make more than the average. FEO $49,237 $47,371 Mr. Wood commented that the Class A of the FEO position is around $41,000. Mr. Dockery pointed out that the study was on actual incumbent salaries. An average MEET& CONFER—CWF & WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 3 salary is obtained, and a range is put around it, with salaries above and below that average. Mr. Wood countered that employees promoted to the next rank are not at that average, which was the goal. Mr. Leiker responded that some of those promoted from FEO to Lieutenant may have 10 years in that rank, so they've gotten raises every year. Mr. Wood replied that the City's step plan does not reflect the average of the other 16 cities. Wichita Falls has 16 steps for lieutenant; maybe Denton has five steps. Denton may start at $50,000, while Wichita Falls starts at $44,000. Mr. Dockery interjected that no one ever starts at the base step. Mr. Wood suggested that step be removed, if that's the case. Mr. Dockery explained that the end result would still be the same. Mr. Wood added that he would like the base salary for a lieutenant to be just below average. Mr. Dockery noted that when the Waters Group looked at incumbent salaries, they came up with a market average adjusted for inflation, and determined that figure to be the market average salary for incumbents. The salary ranges were built around that average. There is a range minimum that will obviously be below the average salary in the market, but there is a range maximum significantly above that average. The Department's actual salaries, after being adjusted significantly, are really close to market average. Mr. Wood stated that it is the Association's goal to have the lieutenants make an average of what the 16 cities make. Mr. Leiker noted that they make more than the average: 24 of them made $53,413 last year, compared to the average incumbent salary of all 16 cities of $52,697. Those are actual averages; he doesn't know a better way of doing it. Mr. Wood asked if the raises to be received in October were included in the salary figures. Mr. Leiker reiterated that this study was done last year. It does not take into account any raises, either received by the City's Fire Department or by the departments in the 16 cities. A survey was done, however, to determine what other cities were doing relative to cost of living increases. Mr. Wood asked if the City would run the numbers again for next year. He was told by Mr. Winney that it was not done this year. Mr. Winney replied that he looked at the cost of living adjustment other cities were doing, and the City is in the ballpark. The goal is to review one-third of all positions each year, with concentration placed on those positions that may experience a significant market change. Mr. Wood stated that the Association wants to sit down with City staff and show their numbers from their survey, and explain how steps in other cities work. Nick Hillner asked if it costs 10% more to live in Denton than Wichita Falls. Mr. Leiker stated that could be debatable, but that is the methodology approved by the Council. MEET &CONFER-CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 4 Mr. Hiliner opined that the Waters Group study should have been called Muddy Waters, as it muddied the waters on everything the Fire Department had been working toward for years. Cost of living adjustments can be argued one way or the other. The firefighters are not trying to be a burden to the taxpayers. If it's a wide gap, it would be fine to take 2-3 years to raise the salaries. But the actual reason for the big discrepancy between the City and the Fire Department's salary surveys cannot be revealed through e-mails back and forth. The average pay issue will not go away, continued Mr. Hiliner. It was to be included in the first Meet and Confer meeting, but Mr. Leiker refused to discuss it because of the Waters Group survey. These issues are near and dear to their hearts. Both sides have got to come to center, and make Meet and Confer work. Mr. Leiker asked why he felt it was not working. Mr. Hiliner replied that they have not received answers on any questions they've presented to him. Mr. Leiker referred him to the minutes of the last meeting, to show that answers have been provided to issues that have been raised: 1. Staffing. Mr. Leiker said he would reevaluate minimum staffing requirements in a year. 2. Deferred compensation from National Insurance Co. He asked that the company's representative provide him information; he has yet to hear from him/her. 3. Retirement. The Council approved the expenditure of $100,000 to bring the firefighter pension up to TMRS. 4. A change in the certification program was approved. Mr. Hillner expressed frustration that the Association was not allowed to discuss pay issues at the first meeting. Mr. Leiker remarked that the new pay plan had just been adopted at that time. Mr. Hiliner countered that for this process to work in a proper manner, there should not be a limit to what can be discussed. Then he expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that Mr. Leiker would not allow the Association to choose their own representatives. Mr. Leiker replied that he wants to meet only with active employees; that was his only limitation. Other than that, the Association was free to choose their representatives. Mr. Hillner asked if he was going to stand by his guns on that issue. Mr. Leiker replied affirmatively. Mr. Hillner expressed concern that; if and when the two sides come to an agreement on an issue, the Association will want to be able to take it outside of these representatives for approval so that they are not being trapped by something. He wants to make sure that what they put their name to is valid. Mr. Leiker told him he has no intention of entering into collective bargaining agreements. The Association is on record MEET& CONFER-CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 5 that it wanted the opportunity to meet with the City Manager to express its concerns and suggestions and it didn't want that door to slam shut. This opportunity has been provided. He did take the pay issue off the table at the first meeting. He believed he was clear that the reason for this was that the Council had just approved the new pay plan. Pay is being discussed today. He asked when this process had moved to collective bargaining. Mr. Hillner questioned whether there would simply be a verbal agreement if a decision is made to clean up the City's step pay plan. Mr. Leiker replied that the Association may express its ideas. If he wishes to recommend them to the Council, he will. There will be no negotiations or agreements to sign. Mr. Hillner asked for confirmation that there is agreement today that a meeting will be held to discuss the variances in the surveys of the comparison cities. Mr. Leiker responded that there have been several meetings to explain the Waters Group Study methodology. Communication seems to be dropping, and there is disagreement as to the true average. He would like for the Association to provide their surveys. Staff will compare the first, mid and top steps for comparison. If funding is available next year, he will take it under advisement to make changes. He does not believe they will be able to sit around a table and mark up the different survey data to figure out what to do with averages. It may be that the two sides simply do not agree. The Association does not agree with the City's use of the GAF, but that is the direction staff received from the Council — not just for the Fire Department, but for all City employees. Mr. Hillner asked if there could be an opportunity between now and pre-budget hearings for Keith Morton to meet with Jim Dockery. Mr. Leiker agreed that could be done. Mr. Wood asked when the best time is to have a meeting to discuss pay issues. The Fire Chief does not, and historically has not, argued money on the Department's behalf. Mr. Leiker replied that the Chief did advocate for the Fire Department this year. He added that the budget kickoff is held in April. He meets with department heads in early June. He recommends that the Association make their requests known in May, so that he can discuss them with the Fire Chief in June. Fire Marshal Division Mr. Wood stated the Association next wished to address the vacancy in the Fire Marshal division. During the last meeting, the Association expressed its opinion that the Emergency Preparedness Coordinator should be a Civil Service position. It is black and white in the Civil Service laws that the vacant position in the Fire Marshal's office should be a Civil Service position, as well. Mr. Leiker pledged that the City is looking into that matter. If it is black and white, the City will take the necessary steps to make that transition, for all three employees of the division. It won't be a quick and easy process — there are several steps, including going to the Civil Service Commission and to the City Council. Mr. Wood opined that it would take an agreement to move from non-civil service to civil service. Mr. Leiker replied that he does not believe that to be true, but he will obtain legal advice on the MEET&CONFER-CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 6 matter. A lot of cities don't have the Fire Marshal's office under Civil Service protection, so that tells him it is not a black and white issue. He asked Julia Vasquez for her comments on the matter. Ms. Vasquez replied that she does not think a lot of things are black and white in Chapter 143, and she agreed that a number of cities do not have the Fire Marshal Division under Civil Service. Mr. Wood asked if the City would look at the 16 comparison cities. Mr. Leiker noted that the City may look at more cities than that. Ultimately, it won't matter what those cities have done; he'll go by the advice of the City Attorney's Office. An agreement with the Association is not necessary to allow the City to transition these positions into Civil Service, however; if it's a law, it's a law. This issue was already under discussion before the Association brought it up. Mr. Wood said that Ms. Vasquez at one point said that the Fire Marshal position should be under Civil Service. The Association agreed, but couldn't speak for them until this vacancy arose. Keith Morton stated that, however this plays out, the Association would like to have input on the transition. Mr. Leiker suggested they meet with the Fire Chief to keep apprised on this matter. They can also attend Civil Service Commission meetings and Council meetings. Mr. Wood stated that it seems clear that those positions deserve civil service status. He does not understand why the City would not want to do that. Mr. Leiker replied that he is not saying that it will not be done. If it is clearly black and white, and Ms. Vasquez and Bill Sullivan say it should be done, it will be done. Mr. Leiker asked the Association's position on the incumbent employees. Mr. Wood stated they need to be Civil Service positions. Mr. Leiker, clarifying his question, explained he meant in terms of retaining those positions. Mr. Wood replied that the finer points would have to be worked out, but they believe that the Fire Marshal position should be equivalent to a Battalion Chief. Chief Foster explained that Mr. Leiker is referring specifically to David (Collins) and Antoinette (Hastings). Mr. Wood said they could stay where they are and ride their career on out, but when those positions come open, the Association wants input on how those positions are filled. Mr. Leiker asked if the Association envisions those positions would or would not be Civil Service positions before those employees left their positions. Mr. Wood replied they should have Civil Service status, free from political influence. Mr. Leiker stated his position is that all positions in the division, or none, will be Civil Service. Mr. Wood replied the Association agrees with that position. Mr. Morton noted those in the Fire Marshal Division should not be able to laterally move to a lieutenant spot or move up to another position in the Department, but he agrees that no one currently in those positions should be displaced. Ms. Vasquez asked if the Association would want employees in Fire Suppression to be able to promote into the Fire Marshal Division. Mr. Morton replied they could if they were qualified. She asked his opinion on promotion out of the Fire Marshal Division into Fire Suppression. MEET& CONFER-CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 7 Mr. Morton replied the current employees could not do so, as they have not been trained. Ms. Vasquez noted there seems to be a disconnect on what is required to be a Fire Marshal or Assistant Fire Marshal. Mr. Morton noted these are finer points of the transition that would need to be worked out. It happens all the time in other areas of the City — people are hired with no qualifications. If they need a certificate, they obtain it after they are hired. It's happening in the Fire Marshal's office right now. Ms. Vasquez replied that no one is hired in that Division who does not have a peace officer certification. Chief Foster interjected that had occurred years ago, but not recently. Mr. Morton replied that an employee could be certified as a peace officer, but obtain training on the job to become an inspector or arson investigator. He opined that if Antoinette or David want to go to rookie school to become a certified firefighter, then they can promote into Fire Suppression. Ms. Vasquez asked if the Association anticipates that a Fire Suppression employee, who does not have peace officer certification, would be allowed to promote into the Fire Marshal Division and then go to the police academy for six to eight months? Mr. Leiker noted that that is not going to happen. Mr. Morton noted the City's police chief of a few years ago was not certified; he was given time to get his certification. Ms. Vasquez noted that he was a peace officer. Mr. Morton countered that his certification was not recognized in the State of Texas. Mr. Leiker responded that he did not have to go through the police academy. Mr. Leiker advised the Association to meet with the Fire Chief and Assistant Chief, and provide them with input and feedback. The Chief is the one who writes the personnel requisition and minimum requirements for these positions. Mr. Morton noted that he is certain the Chief has his own ideas. He asked if requiring peace officer certification in the Fire Marshal's office is a local requirement. Ms. Vasquez replied that it is a policy decision for the Department to have an arson investigator. An arson investigator has the authority to make arrests and get probable cause warrants. A fire investigator can investigate a fire's origin, up to a criminal investigation. Wichita Falls wants an arson investigator, which requires a peace officer certification. That certification requires 6-8 months in the police academy. That is a beginning qualification for a Fire Marshal. Then it takes up to a year to get Fire Inspector I and II certification, and then Fire Investigator certification. Mr. Morton thinks there should be a transition period where latitude is given to allow someone to have that opportunity. Mr. Leiker stated that he does not think so, when it requires police officer certification. The employee could not go to the police academy during the day, while also holding down the position of Fire Marshal. Gary Broyles asked how long it takes to receive arson investigation training. David Collins replied that it takes 140 hours. Ms. Vasquez added that an individual cannot be certified as an arson investigator unless they have a police officer license. Mr. Broyles noted there is already a fire department employee who is a certified peace officer. Ms. Vasquez noted that if the Assistant Fire Marshal position is made Civil MEET& CONFER—CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 8 Service, that employee would not qualify because he would not meet the age requirement, unless it is considered a promotion from Fire Suppression. Mr. Leiker stated that all problems cannot be solved today. Steve Wilkinson asked if the City could supersede the Civil Service. Mr. Leiker noted an agreement can be entered into if necessary. However, it is not necessary to have an agreement to transition to Civil Service through Meet and Confer. Mr. Leiker noted there were only two issues in the Association's letter. If there is no other discussion, he would like to run through the budget recommendations that the Council approved: o Total City budget— General Fund increased 6.77% o Non-public safety departments - increased 5.58% o Police — increased 7.72% o Fire — increased 8.55% • (includes new Battalion Chief position for training, and a vehicle for that position) • Certification pay - increased $100,000 • Pension — increased $98,000 (will increase each year) He hoped he did not hear correctly earlier that the Association felt as if they did not get anything in this budget. Mr. Wood replied that is not what they were trying to say. Mr. Leiker asked if they were appreciative of the efforts made on their behalf. Mr. Wood replied they are very appreciative of the certification upgrade, of the 2% raise, and the 2% on the step plan, and the rank position. But again, he would really like to be able to tell the membership that they receive average pay. They're above average, and should receive average pay. Mr. Leiker responded that he feels he is an above average City Manager and would love to get average pay. He feels a lot of employees are above average. They do a great job and it is appreciated. The City does what it can afford to do. Mr. Wood stated he won't discuss what the water department gets paid, because he doesn't work for them. Mr. Leiker responded that he does have to look at those employees. Mr. Wood replied that he understands that. The Association wants to stay on top and make sure we get average pay, if not more, because they are above average. He thought the representative from National Insurance had contacted Mr. Leiker. He will make that call again. Mr. Leiker noted that would not have to be done in the budget process. He is interested in the differences between the National's plan and the City's current 457 plan. He wants him to send information. Mr. Wood stated he recalled that Mr. Leiker said that if the administrative costs are not any greater than those with the City's current plan, that he would be right on board with it. He asked if the representative simply needs to call Mr. Leiker's office to set up a time. Mr. Leiker responded that he would prefer to be sent the information as it specifically related to MEET& CONFER-CWF &WFFD OCTOBER 4, 2007 9 administrative services charges. A comparison will be done with ICMA's 457 plan. At some point, he might have Jim Dockery meet with the representative. Mr. Wood replied that the representative really wanted to put on a presentation. Mr. Leiker said it might come to that. He then asked if the Fire Chief had anything to add to today's meeting. He did not. Mr. Leiker thanked the Association for their time. Mr. Wood replied that they appreciated the chance to meet. III. ADJOURN. The meeting was adjourned at 12:15 p.m.