Meet and Confer Minutes - 06/14/2007 MEET AND CONFER
CITY OF WICHITA FALLS &WICHITA FALLS FIRE DEPARTMENT
JUNE 14, 2007
PRESENT:
Michael Smith, Council for District 1 § Elected Officials
Charles Elmore, Councilor for District 5 §
Darron J. Leiker, City Manager §
Matt Benoit, Assistant City Manager §
Earl Foster, Fire Chief §
David Winney, Human Resources Director §
Jim Dockery, Director of Finance § City Administration
Julia Vasquez, First Assistant City Attorney §
R. Kinley Hegglund, Jr., §
Senior Assistant City Attorney §
Linda Merrill, Recording Secretary §
Ray Wood, Firefighter (Association President) §
Gary Broyles, Battalion Chief §
Keith Morton, Captain § Wichita Falls Fire Department
Nick Hillner, Lieutenant §
Eden Buddemeyer, Lieutenant §
Jim Davis, FEO §
Brent Womack, Firefighter §
I. CALL TO ORDER.
Darron Leiker called the meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. He asked that all
participants in the discussion introduce themselves.
II. CITY MEET AND CONFER DISCUSSIONS WITH INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION
OF FIREFIGHTERS LOCAL 432, AS AUTHORIZED BY CHAPTER 142 OF THE
TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE.
Ray Wood thanked the City Manager for meeting with the Association. He
referenced a letter he had previously furnished to Mr. Leiker addressing the
Association's concerns. Prior to discussing those concerns, however, he asked for the
MEET& CONFER-CWF &WFFD J!NE 14, 2007 2
opportunity to touch on issues from the last meeting to determine if any progress had
been made.
Darron Leiker took the concerns expressed under advisement and met with the
Fire Chief. Preliminary budgets have been submitted and entered into the system; he
has met with department heads. He has a pretty good list of priorities for this next
budget year. He will be meeting next month with the City Council to talk about the entire
organization's budget. Jim Dockery noted the meeting is set for July 10. Mr. Leiker
noted his draft budget will be submitted to the Council approximately two weeks after
that meeting. Formal budget hearings will be held in August. No final decisions on the
budget have been made at this time.
Mr. Wood noted that some of the items discussed at the last meeting could not
be acted upon as the budget for the fiscal year had already been approved. He has
talked with Chief Foster about certain above-current needs.
The only non-budgetary issue discussed was the radio system. This is a work in
progress.
Mr. Wood asked Mr. Leiker if he had given any thought to amending the
residency policy. Mr. Leiker declared that he is not inclined to change the policy. In fact,
he would like to see it changed to require employees to live within the city limits of
Wichita Falls. He believes the 20 minutes response time allowed is plenty; it allows
employees to live outside the city limits, but still have a reasonable response time. He
allowed that he could see the Association's position, but he would have problems doing
away with it. Mr. Wood opined that doing away with the policy would be a way to recruit
better employees, but acknowledged it was the City Manager's decision.
Mr. Wood asked if Mr. Leiker would like him to discuss the issues according to
priority. Mr. Leiker told him to continue as he wants. Mr. Wood chose to go in the order
of his list of items.
Staffing
Mr. Wood stated that, in order to provide better service to the citizens and for
officer safety, minimum staffing levels should be set at 42. He appreciates the six
additional members recently approved. The Association wants to get to a minimum of
four people at the final two outside stations at all times. This number would make fire
scenes safer, and the officers' jobs easier. The citizens would receive better service, as
well.
Mr. Leiker noted that he has talked to the Fire Chief and Assistant Fire Chief
Weske on this issue. The additional six firefighters were hired on the Fire Chief's
recommendation. He feels it is important to give this number a chance to work. It has
only been since January that these positions were authorized. Chief Foster noted that
MEET&CONFER-CWF &WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 3
the Department currently has 15 vacancies. Five firefighters are going to graduate very
soon, so the vacancies will be reduced to ten. The Department is at 40 more often than
at 42. He, too, wants to give this number a chance to work. Mr. Leiker added that it is
owed to the Council and community to see how it works. Mr. Wood states that the city
owes it to the citizens, as well, to provide better service. Forty-two firefighters would
take care of that.
Mr. Leiker contemplated whether the Department should continue the 24/48 shift,
or look at converting to 10-hour shifts four to five days a week. He noted that some
communities are doing that to economically meet the two in/two out rule. He wants to do
what is right and safe for the community.
Mr. Wood noted the Association's inclination would be to bump up the number of
firefighters to 42. Mr. Leiker noted that would necessitate more overtime, and asked if
the Association would prefer the overtime to the hiring of new firefighters. Mr. Wood
responded that decision would be up to management. He agreed that it would be best
to see how the hiring of six additional firefighters works out, and think about adding
more in the next budget year.
Pay Plan
Mr. Wood noted the Association would have liked to have seen 10% between the
ranks to make promotions more lucrative. He noted there are quite a few members of
the Department who have issues with the Step-Up Plan. There are 13 individuals who,
when they step up from firefighter to act as Drivers or FEOs, actually make more than
the employee for whom they are filling in. Mr. Leiker noted it could be more, but not
necessarily always. Lt. Hillner noted it is every time for these 13 individuals. Mr. Wood
continued, noted these 13 firefighters at F or G actually make more per hour than does
every driver on the job when they step up.
He noted another issue: when a firefighter promotes to driver, he is responsible
for the same duties as a driver who has held that position for 25 years. He has to know
the territory, and be responsible for getting his members safely to and from the fire
scene. However, that new driver will get only an eight percent increase in pay, when he
is doing the same job as the next driver. Mr. Leiker pointed out that the new driver has
less tenure in the position.
Mr. Wood pointed out that a member could have less tenure, yet make more than
one who made driver first. Mr. Leiker informed Mr. Wood that the Fire Department is the
only department in the City that pays extra for members stepping up to fill positions that
are vacated by someone who is sick or on vacation. The employees in all the other
departments do not receive any additional pay to fill in for that role. He asked if the
incumbents who make less than the persons who step up want the step up pay lowered.
MEET&CONFER-CWF &WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 4
Mr. Wood explained that before the last salary adjustment, when a firefighter
stepped up to driver, he would make the base salary of a driver, perhaps a 12%
increase. Another firefighter, who has been a member for a long time, may only see an
8% increase to step up to that position. The general procedure was to move up the
most senior member to make it more cost effective for the department.
Jim Dockery noted the plan was not intended to work that way. The step plan is
designed so that not all members of the same rank will be in the same step. When a
firefighter who has been with the department for a number of years steps up to FEO,
they might make more than an FEO when they receive the 8% incentive. The only way
to solve it is to make sure the very highest firefighter pay range step is lower than the
beginning step of the next position. The way to accomplish that is to cut the number of
steps down for firefighters. But the firefighters would need to understand that in order to
keep that pay discrepancy from occurring is to give up future growth if they do not move
from the firefighter position into a higher rank.
Mr. Wood observed that the solution could be to start at the highest rank of
firefighter, and increase that to 8% for the FEO position. He noted that when the new
pay plan was put into place, no one thought there could be a situation where a lower-
ranking member who steps up to the next rank would actually make more money than
others in that rank. He offered a scenario where a member goes through the
promotional process and yet makes eight to ten percent less than someone else who
performs the same duties. He understands the practice of a 12-year firefighter making
more than a six-year firefighter. But a member who promotes should not be making less
than a 12-year hoseman when he steps up. The intention of the old plan was that a
promoted member deserved the same money as others in that rank, except for
longevity pay.
Mr. Leiker replied that there are a couple of ways to fix that. One is to lop off
some of the higher steps and compress the ranges down more, so that it is a true stair
step. The step up salary would be capped at the amount paid to the lowest salary paid
for that position. He asked Mr. Wood if the Association would want the City to change
the range and number of steps. Mr. Wood replied that he would want to see it on paper
before he answered, but it sounds right.
The Fire Department is a paramilitary organization, continued Mr. Wood. When a
member steps up, he is responsible for all the duties of that position. A one-day fire
lieutenant makes the same as a 20-year fire lieutenant, except for longevity. The only
place in the ranks where the pay is at issue is from firefighter to FEO. He said if a
member has been on the job for 20 years, and another members has been at a lower
position for 12 years, and that 12-year veteran steps up to the 20-year veteran's
position, it would not make sense for that 12-year veteran to make more than the 20-
year veteran.
MEET& CONFER-CWF & WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 5
Mr. Dockery noted that should not happen. It will happen now, but only until the
plan has worked its way through. The plan has not been in place as long as a 20-year
employee. Had the plan been in place for 20 years, this circumstance would not occur.
It will eventually correct itself. Mr. Leiker concurred, adding this will happen as people
retire and new members are hired. The step plan should reflect an employee's years of
service.
Mr. Dockery noted that when the pay plan was put into place, everyone was put
in at Step B. The City could not afford to place everyone at the number of years of
service they had at the time. The cost would have been exorbitant. People with longer
tenured positions were making the same as others in the range. To compound the
problem, when a member was promoted, he was put in the same rank, rather than in a
lower step. Eventually, over time, this should be resolved.
Mr. Wood gave a scenario: firefighter A has eight years experience. Firefighter B
has 10 years experience. Firefighter A makes driver in January, and gets an 8%
increase. Firefighter B makes driver in February, yet he makes more than Firefighter A.
He asked management to understand Firefighter A's disappointment; he studies to
make rank, yet a member who is promoted a year later makes more money.
Mr. Dockery explained that this circumstance will occur for a while.
Mr. Wood noted another issue with the pay plan. When the Waters Group came
in, management said that no one would lose money. If a member made more than the
average (or range, which is different), some people who would step up from firefighter to
FEO would make a certain amount of money. Now, 1'/2 years later, they are making
less. Mr. Leiker explained that no employee, after the compensation study, would get a
base pay cut. If someone was outside of their new pay range, they would be frozen.
Mr. Wood asked how a driver can make less this year compared to last year. He
also asked if the steps should not fall off as the years go by, rather than staying there
and the person moving. Mr. Leiker noted the whole pay plan rises.
Mr. Wood noted that firefighter trainees had to have a high percentage salary
adjustment because that position never got the 2% jump every year. Mr. Leiker stated
he does not know if that is true; if the position was in the pay plan, it would receive the
cost of living adjustment.
Mr. Leiker stated that he understands the Association's concerns with respect to
step up and the overlap, and it will be looked at. But as Mr. Dockery explained, the
firefighters who do not wish to promote may not like the fact that three to four years of
step increases would have to be eliminated to cure this issue. He wants the Association
to think about that and poll its members.
Mr. Wood noted that the first problem to be addressed is the fact that a member
who is promoted and has same responsibilities as others in that rank should make the
MEET&CONFER—CWF&WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 6
same salary. Then, a plan should be instilled for a member who steps up to make a
percentage of that position's salary.
Mr. Leiker noted there is a philosophical difference here. Management believes a
newly promoted FEO should not make the same as a five-year FEO. However, the City
will guarantee a minimum of 8% increase to promote to make it worthwhile. Mr. Wood's
suggestion to leave everyone at the same step regardless of how long they've held their
positions defeats the purpose of a step plan.
Emergency Preparedness Coordinator
Mr. Wood stated it is the Association's position that any job directly under the
Fire Chief needs civil service protection. He has copies of case law and an Attorney
General opinion that supports this position. Chief Foster has told him that these cases
are old, but he feels they are a precedent. The opinion states in part that whether a
particular fire department member satisfies a municipality's definition of firefighter is
immaterial if that member holds a position that requires substantial knowledge of
firefighting and works in the fire department.
Mr. Leiker asked if there was a particular reason the Association holds this
position. Does it believe it will lead to the hiring of a better employee, and if so, how?
Captain Keith Morton stated he has been on the job for 33 years. He has seen the Fire
Marshal's office pressured by City management and the City Council on various
construction projects in town, to the point that the fire prevention codes have been
"bent" in order for the Fire Marshal to keep his job. He has seen it recently. Mr. Leiker
asked who was involved, and Captain Morton replied that David Collins was "probably
in there." Mr. Leiker asked if this pressure had been evident within the past two years, to
which Captain Morton replied no. Mr. Leiker stated that he was trying to figure out if the
accusation was being pointed back to him. (There was laughter throughout the room.)
Captain Morton noted that the Fire Marshal and the Emergency Management
Coordinator positions would be better served without having the at-will status hanging
over their heads.
Mr. Leiker stated he has an opposite take on this issue. He believes a better
person could be hired without civil service status. The position would not be given to
someone who just happened to score the highest grade on a test on that particular day.
Interviews could be conducted. If it were a civil service position, that position could
change whenever there is a promotional opportunity. There will be more stability in that
position without civil service status. He understands that the Association has some legal
opinions that state the City is required to have this position under civil service
protection. If it is discovered that that is truly the case, then it will be. However, the
City's legal staff has looked twice at that issue, and is convinced that the position does
not need to be civil service under the law. Some of the opinions and court cases have
changed that make those that Mr. Wood refers to moot. He asked Julia Vasquez if she
wished to speak on this topic.
MEET&CONFER—CWF&WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 7
Ms. Vasquez noted the Attorney General opinion is from 2003. It talked about
each member of the fire department whose position requires substantial knowledge of
firefighting and works in the fire department fell within the statutory definition of
firefighter for purposes of civil service protection.
In 2005, the 79th Legislature amended Chapter 143 to restrict the definition of
firefighter to someone whose job requires substantial knowledge of firefighting and who
is eligible to be certified by the Texas Commission on Fire Protection. A person has to
meet those two criteria before they are considered to be a firefighter for purposes of this
statutory protection. This issue came up recently in appeals concerning seniority points.
This is why the trainee period is not covered for that purpose. An individual does not fit
the definition of firefighter until the required training has been completed. If an
individual's job does not require those two criteria, they are not considered to be a
firefighter.
Captain Morton asked if the law reads, certification as a firefighter, or just
certification by the Commission? Fire Marshals are certified by the Commission, but not
as firefighters. Ms. Vasquez noted the issue concerns the position of Emergency
Management Coordinator. Captain Morton stated he realized that, but it is a relatively
new position and is not specifically listed. Ms. Vasquez noted the Coordinator position
does not require substantial knowledge of firefighting, to which Captain Morton
disagreed. Chief Foster noted that the Coordinator needs to know who the Chief is, and
be able to work with the Chief, but they do not need substantial knowledge of
firefighting, as they won't be running the incident. Ms. Vasquez stated that the definition
of firefighter does not apply to administrative positions. Mr. Leiker noted the City's
position is that the Emergency Management Coordinator is an administrative position.
He told Mr. Wood that he could have a copy of the City's research on the issue.
Mr. Wood reiterated Captain Morton's position that the Coordinator needs civil
service protection to keep it free from political influence. The Association understands
the City's position on this matter, but wants their position on record. As far as stability
and turnover, he feels this would be a great opportunity to use Meet and Confer to
determine how this position will be instituted into the fire service.
Individual Retirement Plan
Mr. Wood advised that Nationwide Financial Company offers deferred
compensation similar to ICMA, yet charges less in administrative fees. He would like
Nationwide to have the opportunity to give a presentation to all employees. He believes
competition would result in better service to employees. Mr. Leiker asked Mr. Wood to
have a Nationwide representative send him a summary that includes their fixed
administrative costs so that he can conduct a comparison with ICMA. He would bet their
costs are close to those of ICMA, if not higher. The City offers a 457 plan to all
employees; he does not want to offer an additional company's plan, as it would be too
MEET& CONFER—CWF &WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 8
hard to keep track of different plans if there is no real benefit. Mr. Wood noted that
Abilene uses Nationwide. Mr. Leiker asked if Nationwide is the only company it uses, to
which Mr. Wood replied he did not know.
Longevity
The longevity pay issued had been questioned in the past, without the
Association receiving a concrete answer. Mr. Wood questioned why all other City
employees receive 2'/% on their step increase, and fire department employees only
receive a 2% increase. The Association has been told it is because the fire department
employees receive longevity. When the Association asks why all other City employees
receive stability pay, the answer is because the fire department employees receive
longevity.
Mr. Leiker stated that staff will put the numbers on a spreadsheet and show a
comparison. It is not a one-per-one. The Fire Department's longevity pay does not make
up in its entirety that one-half percent.
Mr. Dockery, speaking for past administrations when the plan was enacted,
stated that stability or longevity plans are to recognize longer tenured employees and to
provide stability. Two and one-half percent was in place for non-civil service employees.
Those employees did not receive longevity pay, but they did earn stability pay. The
thought was that the police and fire should not receive 21/2%, as they already had
longevity. Staff tried to find a reasonable percentage to make them comparable. It is not
a one-to-one, but it is somewhere in between. He asked if the Association is asking for
stability pay. Mr. Wood replied that would be fair enough.
Mr. Leiker stated that he has non-civil service employees ask him why they do
not get paid for sick leave upon retirement. If the Association is comparing score cards
between civil service and non-civil service employees, he pointed out that some fire
department retirees receive $30,000 for sick leave when they retire. The City cannot
afford to provide that to non-civil service employees. Captain Morton replied that
attendance might increase if it was provided. Mr. Leiker advised the Association to keep
in mind that any leveling of the score cards may subtract benefits from other areas. Mr.
Wood replied that they always want to make the score card go up, not down.
Pension Contribution
Mr. Wood noted this issue was discussed at the last Meet and Confer discussion.
He had hoped that the City Council would bump up the City's contribution to the Fire
Department's pension plan when other employees got their pension plan bumped up,
but that did not occur. He asked if that is in the works for this budget year. Mr. Leiker
noted that no decision has been made, but it is under evaluation.
MEET&CONFER-CWF &WFFD JUNE 14, 2007 9
He met a couple of months ago with members of the Fire Department's pension
board. The Board was ready to embark on an actuarial. They wished the City would
decide before the actuarial runs the numbers and adjusts the rates. It was decided the
actuarial would run two scenarios — the current contributions, and a matched
contribution equal to TMRS. The decision to change the rates won't have to be made
until after budget decisions are finalized.
Mr. Wood compared it to five children at Christmas; four get gifts, and one gets
nothing. Mr. Leiker pointed out that for many years, the fire department's pension
contribution from the City was higher than for all other employees; it turned the other
way not very long ago. Mr. Dockery added that it stayed at 9% for a long time, which
was way above TMRS. But now, TMRS has caught up and moved slightly ahead.
Mr. Leiker stated that five or six years ago, the City leveled those to have parity
between them. But they did not tie the two together.
Mr. Leiker asked him to prioritize the list, as the City is in the middle of the budget
process. Mr. Wood noted that they are all important, but it would be nice to get the
same pension contribution as all other City employees. They have given Chief Foster
their list. Lt. Hillner noted the list includes certification pay and sign-up pay.
Mr. Wood noted that staffing will always be an issue, and he believes both sides
are working toward that.
Mr. Leiker noted the City would love to be able to fund all issues, but there are
simply not enough resources. Management and the Council will do the best they can.
Mr. Wood asked if he could receive feedback on the process. Mr. Leiker noted
that as the budget process progresses, he will communicate to Mr. Wood which items
are recommended to the Council, and which are approved and which are not.
Mr. Wood thanked him for this assurance. He added that he will contact a
representative from Nationwide. He thanked Mr. Leiker for the meeting. He stated the
Meet and Confer process is not a demanding process. The Association cannot demand
anything from management, but simply ask that it take issues under consideration.
Mr. Leiker noted that the Association asked for the opportunity to meet with him
and express its concerns. That is what is occurring. He assured Mr. Wood that he would
receive feedback to distribute to the Association as the process moves along.
III. ADJOURN.
The meeting was adjourned at 2:35 p.m.